Class Discussion

[Ilium]

Comments, criticism, contributions.

[pendejochy]

Yo man, nice to see there will still be a FF sim once SimHoi goes kaput.

I'm curious to see how you're going to handle the calculator class. It was rather infamous in V2 because it was both difficult to write tactics for, and running battles with them involved a lot of extra math for staffers who were already doing pretty tedious calculations.

Also, for thieves, how are you going to handle them using steal abilities on PCs? Or are you just gonna make it only NPC have stealable items?

[Ilium]

Hello, pendejochy!

Thanks for bringing that to my attention about the Calculator class. I will go over to Heroes of Ivalice and read up on that situation as much as possible. I can definitely see some obvious road blocks like the one you mentioned in getting some of these classes ready for play. It would be nice if we could get some input on that situation from players who played the Calculator class and also staff who ran battles with Calculators, to have some insight on how to better implement that class. If figuring the mechanics for Calculator proves too much of a task right now, we could also bench it for now and see about getting it ready for any possible future incantations of the game.

As far as Thieves, my personal opinion is that they should be able to steal from other PC's. Perhaps ranking items WoW style and using that to determine how easy or hard certain items would be to steal. That would also be my personal opinion regarding any possible "Item Break" abilities, that PC's are able to break the items of other PC's. Of course, this would all be up for debate amongst the staff and if the majority don't like PC to PC stealing or breaking, then it won't be implemented.

[pendejochy]

I don't think there was a single calculator primary class in V2. I think maybe the user Ren Zhe or someone else in the Orphan Souls had it as a secondary or tert. The SimHOI IRC is still up, so you can always ask there.

For thievery, maybe include a clause that the person you stole from gets to take their stuff back if they beat you or your team.

For item break, maybe make the items repairable post battle.

[Ilium]

Good ideas for Thief. Maybe if the Thief faints, he drops whatever he stole. If the Thief's team is defeated, he leaves the items he stole. I would also apply roughly those same stipulations towards item break. If the person who broke the item faints or their team is routed, the person the item belonged too can recover the broken item and perform a repair.

A side note, somewhat related to our Calculator discussion: did any of the previous staff have any experience with coding, to your knowledge? It just seems to me that a lot of the formulas that perhaps gave the staff fits could have been easily automated by a program, if a person were to write the code.

[pendejochy]

The thief thing is good. If this sim uses "escape hexes" like V2 did (where you could flee a battle by ending on the squares) it could have PCs make a choice between recovering their items before they're stolen, and defeating the other enemies.

I think things broken though item break should be able to be repaired even if the owner loses. It isn't like anyone would bother stealing a broken sword.

Not sure any of the staff did. I think someone in the Orphan Souls/Bruplin Guild did, but since the sim slowed to a crawl, I'm afraid my memory of the playerbase isn't as vivid as it used to be. Like I said, you might wanna ask on the IRC channel.

[Ilium]

If items were to be recovered regardless of victory or defeat, then the JP value of Item break actions would have to be lowered to reflect this. That, along with a possible long repair time, such as 2-4 game turns would be necessary to keep item break talents as viable options. If the results of the item break were more severe, such as permanent loss of the item, then the JP value would be increased. Item break talents could branch out in either direction, depending on whatever balancing issues might arise from them.

That's too bad, if the staff would have perhaps brought that person on board we might have been well into V4/V5 on Heroes of Ivalice. That's why it would be extremely helpful if someone from the current team of staff would like to help build this game, giving us access to the already tested formulas would make the pace of this game's creation accelerate exponentially. I'm about to jump on the mIRC channel and check out how active that place is, and gauge interest amongst those players remaining towards this place.

[pendejochy]

You gonna plug this sim anywhere else? The Nuklear Power and Order of the Stick forums had threads for roleplay, maybe they'd be interested too.

[Ilium]

Thanks for the heads up one those two places! Yeah, I was going to hit up a few of the other big sim boards, like SimRTK here soon and see if I can recruit some help and interest from there. After that, if anyone has decided to help me, I will take to every related RPG/Final Fantasy forum I can find and shamelessly plug this place to death. Before I do that though I would like to build up this forum a little bit more, to make it look more enticing to visitors. Right now I can get away with having a skin-and-bones template of the board because the only ones who are aware of it are coming from Heroes of Ivalice, and they already understand the purpose this place will serve and what its reasonably supposed to look like.

Speaking of help, are you interested in getting involved as staff, pendejochy? If not I completely understand, and don't feel bad for refusing.

[pendejochy]

Sorry, I can't take you up on that offer right now. Maybe in the future, I'll apply for a staff position, or try to contribute in other ways.

[Ilium]

Hey no worries, anything you feel like contributing regardless would be very much appreciated.

[Ilium]

Alright, other than touching up the main image a bit, the Squire class template is done. These stats and abilities were pulled from both the original PSX game as well as Heroes of Ivalice. Right now I would like input from anyone who had experience with the class from HoI. What did you like or dislike about it? What would you like to see stay, and what needs changed?

I will start. I do not like how many ability requirements were in V2, and I would like to lessen how many prerequisite restrictions there were. What I would like to see is player's being able to branch out more freely throughout the class, without having to follow a similar branching tree as others playing that same class.

[silversilvera]

I would say that thieves should drop stolen items upon faint/death, loss of battle, or fleeing battle. Break should temporarily break the item, either for the duration of the battle or maybe one turn. A long term break, in my opinion, would be a bit overpowered.

Also, any thoughts on adding additional classes? Blue Mage, Red Mage, and Beastmaster come to mind most prominently. But there are plenty of other classes that could be used to! Anti-mage, Berserker, Blood Knight, Warlord, Alchemist, Gambler, Illusionist... Mages with specialized elements, Assasins, Rangers, Soldiers, Sorcerers, Warlocks, Archmage, Gunner, Sage, Slayer, Toxicologist, Witch Doctor, Necromancer... Theres plenty!

I'm not sure on the whole prerequisite things because I didn't do V2 for very long. I probably agree with you though, low prerequisites are good.

Also, what does HoI think of taking their stuff?

[Ilium]

Mar 18, 2013 20:08:06 GMT -6 silversilvera said:

I would say that thieves should drop stolen items upon faint/death, loss of battle, or fleeing battle. Break should temporarily break the item, either for the duration of the battle or maybe one turn. A long term break, in my opinion, would be a bit overpowered.

That seems fair. I still feel if maybe a critical roll on an item break should break the item for a longer period than usual, if only to make the ability more appealing. Otherwise item break abilities should probably cost very little JP, and perhaps should be one of the beginning abilities for a Knight.

Also, any thoughts on adding additional classes? Blue Mage, Red Mage, and Beastmaster come to mind most prominently. But there are plenty of other classes that could be used to! Anti-mage, Berserker, Blood Knight, Warlord, Alchemist, Gambler, Illusionist... Mages with specialized elements, Assasins, Rangers, Soldiers, Sorcerers, Warlocks, Archmage, Gunner, Sage, Slayer, Toxicologist, Witch Doctor, Necromancer... Theres plenty!

Alot of the classes you mentioned I had ideas for as Master and Specialist classes, for the sake of streamlining the game and making it far more easier to get it up and running. Also, I personally like the idea of having 'basic' classes as ones you can pick from the start, classes that are unique and that each bring something different to the game.

That's not to say I don't want any of the classes in the game, actually its the opposite. Almost every class you mentioned I would like to introduce into the game, however it will be much easier to work on them if we are able to launch the game first, then continue to develop these classes while there are no players who are ready to take them on. Plus I believe making them Master and Specialist classes will increase their 'mystique' and more players will actively want to work towards achieving those classes.

I'm not sure on the whole prerequisite things because I didn't do V2 for very long. I probably agree with you though, low prerequisites are good.

Also, what does HoI think of taking their stuff?

I haven't been in touch with any of the HoI staff, to tell you the truth. I don't see how they would have a problem with it, especially since they are shutting doors themselves. I've given 100% credit back to Heroes of Ivalice every time I've promoted this website, so its not like people don't know where this game came from. I've also extended the offer to the current staff to join us here and bring their expertise with them, if they wanted to. Perhaps a fresh restart would be just what they needed.

[silversilvera]

So the first round of class stats should be finished tonight and I will post them.
Because its easier to use a "gain X HP every level" rather than have a table for what each class's HP should be at each level, I felt it would be best to make HP/MP/PA/MA ten times the normal amount. If this is not done, nearly every class will simply get +2 to HP/MP every level up so there won't be much difference in classes. The PA/MA up and the HP up even each other out. The MP up means that spell costs need to go up by x10 as well, and while speed remains the same, whenever speed is used in damage calculations it will need to be multiplied by ten to get the same result. And of course things will still need to be balanced out afterwards, I'm just going off what FFT stat growth are. Some classes like the Bard have terrible stats that need boosting.

Thoughts?