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Post by Diethe on Apr 17, 2013 12:59:51 GMT -6
Heh, no prob Schwerpunkt. I need your help most of all with point-plotting out where stuff are supposed to be so your guidance is more than appreciated. I seem to have a grip on your idea for the cities so I'll work on that as soon as I get an okay with everyone regarding the blank map. How do you want the mountains to look like? I sorta dont understand the description, heh. But yeah, that eastern mountain range geographically should act as a buffer to that eastern tundra area.
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Post by Diethe on Apr 17, 2013 13:11:29 GMT -6
Also, an additional thought concerning those settlement tiles! I'm pretty sure we'd spread out too far if I add too much icons for cities on the map, but how about we have additional "control point" tiles that each city has as a neighboring tile?
For example:
The region of Igros has 1 city tile (Example only) namely Eagrose Castle controlled by Duke Larg. Beside it is an unoccupied control point tile called Fort something something controlled by the Hokuten Knights and another called Eagrose Farms currently unoccupied. The last tile is a wilderness tile called 'Mandalia Plains'. Basically these control tiles can be controlled by minor factions as their own bases or occupied by a large faction in addition to the city that give off benefits to the city attached to it? I'm talking a bit blind here since we dont have city mechanics yet sorry, heh.
The main reason for this is that not every tile is going to be horribly balanced or the same so we can just segregate the small villages/facilities from the big cities. Also because, you know..a war between Orbonne Monastery and Dorter Trade City would be funny but they have the same status and markings on the map.
Example:
Region of Gallione
City Tile:
Eagros Castle (Faction: Duchy of Gallione)
Dorter Trade City
Gariland Magick City
Control Point Tiles nearby:
Fort Hokuten (Or some shit. Faction: Hokuten Knights)
Ziekden Fortress (Faction: Death Corps)
Thieves' Fort (Faction: Death Corps)
Eagrose Farms (Faction: Duchy of Gallione)
Dorter Port (Near Dorter)
Orbonne Monastery (Faction: Glabados Church)
Gariland Magick Akademy (Some mage-y faction)
Wilderness Tiles nearby:
Mandalia Plains
Siedge Weald
Araguay Woods
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Schwerpunkt
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Post by Schwerpunkt on Apr 17, 2013 13:35:02 GMT -6
Well, I gave you a crude representation of what I meant with the mountain range. I also went ahead and just did what I figured Ordallia would look like.  Sal Ghidos, Mount Germinas, and Nelveska are all there for reference points. Burstel is part of Zelamonia. In that really truncated history I wrote, it's the city that the Ordallians razed to crush the Zelamonian uprisings. To represent the gradual incorporation of Zelamonia into Ordallia, I used Arabic to name the two non-city locations. Busharat is something like "grasslands" and az-Zafarah is "the harvest." All the Qalats are fort-cities in a style vaguely similar to the various Ivalician castles (which mean various things; Qalat Mazar is almost "Fort of the Grave"). Laqant is Ordallia proper's big trade city (like Sal Ghidos). Qataniya is derived from Qataniyyah, the Arabic term for Catalonia (part of Spain); it means "court of the elephant," apparently, so I figured Qataniya would be big on the ivory trade (and maybe have domesticated elephants). "al-Qawasqar" is "the canyons." I dropped "al" from the name since I was feeling lazy. You get the idea. "Dhalikar" is probably the only exception. I intended it to be the permanent encampment of the Dhalizun. With that draft, Ordallia has 11 cities and 10 notable locations. Romanda has 3 of each. |
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Post by chrisnorcras on Apr 17, 2013 13:35:28 GMT -6
Forgive me if I speak out of turn/miss some point already discussed...
What about map movement? One of the things that was irritating about HoI was the propensity for events to happen halfway/all-the-way across the map with no way for a player to reach the location in time to take part in the event. Also, when it comes to city-specific job training, one should also take into consideration the distance between "training" cities (should they be implemented). A character may have all of the qualifications to make the job change but not be able to make the change for several "turns" due to being a distance away from the location, during which time they may get caught up in an event or other circumstance.
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Post by Ilium on Apr 17, 2013 13:40:46 GMT -6
On the topic of transportation, I had the idea of implementing a airships, and a couple aerodomes scattered throughout the map. Also, Schwerpunkt suggested low cost of movement, making it more economical for players to move longer distances during PT's.
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Post by Diethe on Apr 17, 2013 13:41:12 GMT -6
Heh. Yep I was planning on putting Viura on that fork in the river myself. Like I said, what do you think about separating minor locations or forts/villages as control points instead of categorizing them with the cities?
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Schwerpunkt
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Post by Schwerpunkt on Apr 17, 2013 13:43:26 GMT -6
The general agreement on factions was that every faction will be led by a GMNPC. PC factions, if they even exist, would be emerging factions -- whether because a PC took control of a GMNPC faction, earned a significant promotion, or just had more balls than sense and did something so utterly absurd they need to be rewarded.
We don't really need to worry about Dorter and Orbonne picking a fight because, well, they probably wouldn't. Both would be part of Lesalia which, in turn, is part of the Kingdom of Ivalice.
What might happen is a row between the Hokuten and Nanten that ends with them fighting over some minor point. But that's kind of improbable. We haven't quite worked out the exact mechanics of occupation and such as yet, though.
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Schwerpunkt
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Post by Schwerpunkt on Apr 17, 2013 13:47:20 GMT -6
Forgive me if I speak out of turn/miss some point already discussed... What about map movement? One of the things that was irritating about HoI was the propensity for events to happen halfway/all-the-way across the map with no way for a player to reach the location in time to take part in the event. Also, when it comes to city-specific job training, one should also take into consideration the distance between "training" cities (should they be implemented). A character may have all of the qualifications to make the job change but not be able to make the change for several "turns" due to being a distance away from the location, during which time they may get caught up in an event or other circumstance. Ilium wants airships. I don't really want to rely too heavily upon them -- I'd much rather see sea travel be a thing, since it was hugely important to control ports during this era (and even much later; America considered the seizure of Antwerp in WWII a vital military objective because Antwerp was the only city with a port big enough to supply the huge number of Allied forces in-theater). I'd want lots of naval travel options at relatively low cost (something like 2-3 AP per boat ride, whereas it'd be 1 AP to walk through a tile; using HoI's map, I worked out a system where each boat ride was equivalent to walking through 5 tiles). Additionally, if necessary, the relatively low AP cost (1 of 20 AP per PT) would allow you to walk across most of the map if it was absolutely necessary to do so. Also, I was in favor of eliminating most random battles (unless you walk through a city/fort owned by a hostile faction), which would also greatly reduce the risks associated with simply moving around. |
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Post by Diethe on Apr 17, 2013 13:48:30 GMT -6
Alright, I'll just follow the layout you made with Ordallia then in the meantime.
As for the issues on transportation, would it be possible to bypass some transportation limitations to for example, only monster hunts and big events RP and not PTs or training or something? Basically limit the mechanics that would be limited by location. Airships? We could/or should probably limit them yeah. Like Schwerpunkt said, I remember Nelveska being a major controlled port during the 50 years war so ports and respective navies are an important thing.
What we could have as an alternative 'lore-friendly' fast travel thing would be perhaps chocobo wagon travel and ships basically and the occasional expensive but 'go everywhere' airship travel?
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Post by Ilium on Apr 17, 2013 13:53:16 GMT -6
City, Control, Wilderness Tiles I like this idea alot, and is something I've been trying to brainstorm on how to implement. You put it pretty fairly clearly, thank you. If we want, we could begin to develop the other regions along this idea. |
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Schwerpunkt
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Post by Schwerpunkt on Apr 17, 2013 13:55:42 GMT -6
Well, I think monster hunts would be more frequent in certain locations and less frequent in others. Dhalikar, being a military encampment, probably wouldn't have any -- the Sand Wastes, being a nearly uninhabitable desert, would probably have lots. I would like to keep a "major" monster hunt location within about 3 AP of every important city.
An option to make them more accessible would be to simply charge a fixed amount of AP (say, 10 AP, or half your PT) to participate in any monster hunt within your region. So if you were in Zeakden and wanted to participate in the Mandalia monster hunt, you'd sink 10 AP and that's all you'd have to spend -- it'd cover moving to and from the region.
But we'll probably be going over this in more detail when we do get to PTs. I want MHs to be accessible. Especially since, if I have my way, we'll be doing away with almost all random battles.
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Post by Ilium on Apr 17, 2013 13:59:17 GMT -6
Naval routes should certainly be expanded on. I think we should also begin thinking of different Chocobo assisted movements. The idea of airships arose from when I was using FFTA2's city names as names for Ordalia's cities, and the town Fluorgis in that game has an aerodome. Its certainly nothing I'm set on and isn't really something I've thought about since it was initially discussed.
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Post by chrisnorcras on Apr 17, 2013 13:59:39 GMT -6
Well, I think monster hunts would be more frequent in certain locations and less frequent in others. Dhalikar, being a military encampment, probably wouldn't have any -- the Sand Wastes, being a nearly uninhabitable desert, would probably have lots. I would like to keep a "major" monster hunt location within about 3 AP of every important city. An option to make them more accessible would be to simply charge a fixed amount of AP (say, 10 AP, or half your PT) to participate in any monster hunt within your region. So if you were in Zeakden and wanted to participate in the Mandalia monster hunt, you'd sink 10 AP and that's all you'd have to spend -- it'd cover moving to and from the region. But we'll probably be going over this in more detail when we do get to PTs. I want MHs to be accessible. Especially since, if I have my way, we'll be doing away with almost all random battles. |
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Post by Diethe on Apr 17, 2013 14:01:05 GMT -6
It's merely something to separate cities from smaller places that can be occupied really. Here's a small idea:
Cities:
-Big Income
-Big armies that mobilize and stuff
-Basically the bulk of activity and RP
-Guilds, trainers, merchants (Only place where you can buy gear?)
-Mostly controlled by GMNPCs
-Small chance of random encounter
Control Points:
-Small Income that can be improved (Such as mines, farms, etc)
-Small standing army (Perhaps only a defensive one? Dunno.)
-Bonus Income (If controlled by adjacent city, basically like an addon to cities)
-(Just an idea) Can only be controlled by either a city or one of the factions, so will act as organization bases, but mostly still GMNPCs
-Medium chance of random encounter
Wilderness Tiles:
Cant be controlled by anyone
Passable by armies
Monster hunts, big chances of random encounters
Though I do hope there's a Personal Turn where you try your luck at
finding random encounters whether you're in the city our out, though the chances would vary like Schwerpunkt says depending on which tile you are on. Wilderness Tiles, if you for example 'hunted' for a random encounter in your PT would probably go for 70-90% involving taking out beasts or bandits while 40-60% in cities involving taking out thugs or something.
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Schwerpunkt
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Post by Schwerpunkt on Apr 17, 2013 14:07:10 GMT -6
I can see an airship for ferrying people between Viura and Khus. They're literally on opposite sides of the map, after all, and it would be hugely beneficial to have that.
But I'm not sure about having an airship in Ivalice. I mean, we should have conflict everywhere (Touten-Corpse Brigade in Lesalia, Hokuten-Romanda in Gallione/Fovoham, Ordallia-Nanten in Zeltennia/Limberry). The only place that's left out is Lionel (which I expect to be the main place for the archaeologist and merchant factions).
Most of the kingdom management stuff common in sims (and HoI) will be on the backburner here. I do want each region to be classified and offer a specific benefit (so, say, owning Eagrose's castle forges grant all Hokuten knights +1 PA or something; owning minor locations like Mandalia would offer much less of a benefit). And, when we do start talking about big pitched battles between the competing factions, tile ownership should have an impact on that.
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