Mediator Development Thread

[Mordred]

Action Ability: Talk Skill

Most Speeches have Range: Auto, Effect: Cone that hits like the following table. Speeches stack with each other but not themselves. Speech effects expire like any other status effect. If a soldier under the effect of a Speech is hit with the same Speech of the same or greater potency, the new Speech overwrites the weaker (a weaker Speech will not overwrite a stronger).

HIT	HIT	HIT
HIT	HIT	HIT
	HIT
	Mediator ^

Rally :: Adds PA to allies based on caster PA.
Dampen :: Takes PA from enemies based on caster PA.
Preach :: Adds MA to allies based on caster MA.
Disillusion :: Takes MA from enemies based on caster MA.
Cheer :: Adds Speed to allies based on caster Speed.
Depress :: Takes Speed from enemies based on caster Speed.

Ramble On :: Chance to add Sleep to all. (A Mediator can keep a crowd asleep for an extended period of time if he keeps on Rambling!)
Confound :: Chance to add Confuse to all.
Provoke :: Chance to add Berserk to all.

Beguile :: Range: 3 Effect: 1, Add: Charm.
Death Sentence :: Range: 3 Effect: 1, Add: Doom.

I realize this is 11 skills rather than 9. First draft and all. Basically, the Mediator is an AoE stat buffer/stat debuffer with a few status effects thrown in for added oomph. The Mediator is at his most powerful when he's working his rhetorical magic on entire parties, or when he turns an ordinary fight into a desperate, insane melee with one well-placed Confound or Provoke.

Any of the status effects in his arsenal can ruin an enemy strategy and his debuffs will further cripple their ability to fight back, while his own party gets the benefit of enhanced stats from Cheer, Preach, and Rally.

Thoughts? R/S/M?

[Schwerpunkt]

The Mediator has a gun. Making his speech stuff a conical aoe is kind of silly. Additionally, modifying PA/MA/Speed is extremely lazy. I feel like I've said this in every topic thus far where that has been raised as a possibility. Adding them is a way of saying "we couldn't make this work without these gimmicky abilities, so..."

Alright, moving on.

1. Argumentum ad Crumenam - Adds Berserk (single target)
2. Argumentum ad Nauseam - Adds Sleep (single target)
3. Argumentum ad Lapidem - Adds Confuse (single target)
4. Argumentum ad Hominem - Adds Provoke (taunt, single target)
5. Argumentum ad Ignoriatum - Resets target CT to 0 (single target)
6. Argumentum ad Baculum - Shoots the targets, inflicting 40% damage to each. (multiple targets)
7. Argumentum ad Populum - Adds Terror (multiple targets)
8. Argumentum ad Temperantiam - Reduces target CT by 35 (multiple targets)
9. Argumentum ad Antiquitatem - Adds Confuse (multiple targets)

Basically, I themed this around argumentation because that fits the Mediator. I especially like Argumentum ad Baculum (argument from force). Single target stuff has a higher rate of success and is instant cast; multi target stuff has a lower rate of success and requires a short 'charge' (probably like 20 CT). Except the gun one, because that's funnier without a charge.

[kablizzy]

You have said that in every topic that's mentioned it, and Mord and I probably keep mentioning it because it's probably just fine.

I liked the original Mediator's concept, and these both just build on it. That said, I'm not a fan of the cone concept necessarily, but I feel like we can mesh original Mediator into these two builds and make something freakin' awesome.

[Mordred]

FFT designed its class ability sets by and large so that one class would each have the ability to manipulate/interact with one of the elements of the battle system, especially the new ones unique to the game. Hence you had:

Geomancers interacting with terrain type (new to FFT),
Calculators interacting with CT, Height, and Level (some unique to FFT)
Time Mages manipulating action commands with Don't Act/Move, plus the classic time moves from past FFs,
Mediators manipulating Brave/Faith mechanics and party join mechanics,
Chemists having ranged item use,
Lancers having multiple ranges on Jumps,
Mimes' abilities (and Reflected spells) being directional in space,

Basically the only significant mechanic that didn't have a class associated with it was the Zodiac, and that was a huge story thing. Then you have the classic FF game mechanics which also got classes, like status effects (Oracle), summons (Summoner), and the more vanilla classes.

So why is it that direct stat modification is so "lazy?" It's straightforward and obvious, yes, but it's not like every class is going to have the ability to manipulate these values.

Keeping Mediator as a Br/Fa manipulator won't fly because permanent Br/Fa changes wreck character progression and keeping Br/Fa in the damage formulae is not practicable in a PVP setting. Invite as it is in FFT is also out for obvious reasons.

The ability set you posted looks like 9 skills but is actually 6. If it's stupid to have Pearl and Holy in the same moveset, why is it any better to have single-target and multi-target Confuse in the same moveset?

Also, the cone effect was the result of this observation: When you talk, more than one person can hear you.

[kablizzy]

Aye. I've always just liked the AoE things, and figured it'd be cleaner, but either way.

I'm also a huge fan of class themes like you explained. That's a neat conceptual way to form identities.

We can also manipulate the Brave / Faith concept so that permanent Br / Fa changes don't happen the way they did in original FFT. They can screw with Temp. Brave, but editing permanent anything is really rough to give a class.

[Schwerpunkt]

The problem I have with MA/PA/Speed modifiers is they are so easy to completely snowball on us. If you put five Knights on the field, you don't really break anything. If you put five Priests, you start to have problems because they can probably pray through almost all the damage you put out (but, in turn, their direct damage capability blows). If you put five Mediators in the field and they're all speed buffing each other while the enemy slogs their way across the battlefield, we have a problem. We suddenly wind up with a situation where we've basically reincorporated FFT's Yell.

Yes, it's unlikely that this will happen. No, there's no reason to believe it won't. Remember, people play these games specifically to cheese with mechanics. Pende's Mediator/Ninja comes to mind and he's far from the only one. By allowing people to easily modify MA/PA/Speed, we create a situation where we can very easily see a party of five Mediators turn into unstoppable killing machines, especially if they take faster secondary classes.

[kablizzy]

Or we limit the bonus to max +1, maybe?

[Mordred]

I already considered the possibility of things spiraling out of control with these buffs: note how it says that Speeches do not stack with themselves. You can never have a party of 5 Mediators Speeching each other into Hulk-like proportions because you can only be under the influence of a single instance of each Speech at a time. Plus, the buffs do expire.

I was thinking the cap for effectiveness of any of the +Stat speeches would be +3 or +4.

[Schwerpunkt]

Ehh. If we do that, I can see it working, even if it seriously undermines the Mediator's utility.

But I think this class, again, returns to the need to address status effects.

[Mordred]

So if they're stackable, they're OP, if they're not stackable, they're UP? Hmm. What if each use of one of the buff Speeches just added +1 to the given stat, with a hard cap on how high the buff can go of +3?

In any case, if we let Mediator keep all his "state-of-mind" status effects, we've got this left from my sketch for his ability set:

Ramble On
Provoke
Confound
Beguile
Death Sentence

Somebody just needs to come up with 4 more unique powers and we've got us a class. I don't like the "set CT=0" skill because it's basically just Stop but less effective and implemented weird.

Also, random thought, shouldn't Mediators use books rather than guns? Reading from a book seems appropriate for a class that's based on speechifying.

[Schwerpunkt]

When you have to start juggling max bonuses and expiration timers to prevent abuse, you may want to stop and take note of the fact that whatever it is you're trying to implement isn't very balanced.

Updated.

1. Argumentum ad Crumenam - Adds Berserk (single target)
2. Argumentum ad Nauseam - Adds Sleep (multiple targets)
3. Argumentum ad Lapidem - Adds Confuse (single target)
4. Argumentum ad Hominem - Adds Provoke (taunt, single target)
5. Argumentum ad Ignoriatum - Adds Pacification (temporarily prevents use of abilities that don't consume MP, single target)
6. Argumentum ad Baculum - Shoots the targets, inflicting 40% damage (+20% if sleeping) to each. (multiple targets)
7. Argumentum ad Populum - Adds Regen and Regain (single target)
8. Argumentum ad Temperantiam - Reduces target CT by 35 (multiple targets)
9. Argumentum ad Antiquitatem - Adds Lucky (single target (if 100% to crit), multiple targets if not)

A standard length of 300 CT is a reasonable duration for these effects. Argumentum ad Populum may actually require being a bit longer, but I don't want the Mediator to have a really viable role as a healer.

And books sound all well and good, but they're goddamn terrible. They really are. People expect guns on this class and it's only reasonable to have it.

For RSM:
R1: Pistol Whip (melee attack for 70% damage, requires gun)
R2: Gut Punch (inflicts Nausea, reducing target move by 1)
S1: Equip Gun
S2: Monster Talk (able to Invite monsters on a temporary basis, all talking abilities apply to them normally)
M1: Move +1

Can't really think of a better move ability.

[Mordred]

Am I the only one who thinks those faux-Latin names are eye bleed inducing?

A move that reduces CT in an area should be ok, on second thought - a mass Stop would be broken, but a mass CT=0 effect would be fine if it included allies.

Something like Lucky might be a better solution than stacking PA/MA boosts, since it has the same basic effect as a Br/Fa manipulation, which we're trying to simulate here. Perhaps we should have something that inflicts statuses like Lucky:Magic, Lucky:Physical, and then something that grants single-target Quick for a speed manipulator?

Books were just a thought.

I don't like Provoke or Regen as Mediator effects. Regen because that's Priest territory, Provoke because Berserk seems to do the same thing but better.

Pacification is a nice parallel to Silence and Reflect, since right now Blind is the only sfx that affects physical classes rather than mages.

Would Monster Talk support also grant the Invite action? It would have to, since I don't see room in the avility set for it.

For Reaction, Damage Split would be apropos. We can call it something like "Justice," like the Mediator is convincing the opponent to share in the pain.

[Mordred]

Oh, also, we could let Mediators buff their party members' Move or Jump values or debuff those of enemies. No class manipulates those values so far.

[kablizzy]

I'm not a fan of the Latin naming, myself, more of a fan of the FFT simple names and FFT simple ability descriptions. If we can't explain it in less than a couple sentences, I'ma have a hard time designating it.

Insofar as Buffing Move / Jump, that's actually kinda cool. I'm not sure how I'd justify it on Mediator, necessarily, but I'm all about exploring that niche for... Something.

I'm all behind the book idea, though. Makes magnificent amounts of sense, and they can totally equip guns also! Hurrah!

I'm going through every class tonight and tomorrow and catching up, so you guys will totally have my comments in more depth soon.

[Schwerpunkt]

May 11, 2013 18:35:40 GMT -6 Mordred said:

Am I the only one who thinks those faux-Latin names are eye bleed inducing?

Faux-Latin? That's the actual Latin terminology for that stuff. Each ability is a logical fallacy. But fine, we can rename it. I just thought it was spectacularly thematic.

And no one will ever use a book over a gun if they're given a choice in the matter.

And I don't see any reason to touch jump and move. I think the skillset I provided is very well rounded.