Mediator Development Thread

[pendejochy]

I think mediator abilities should affect only 4 hexes in a T shape instead, with the hex directly in front of the mediator having the a higher CoS than the others. It is still Aoe, but provides a risk/reward for mediators who might want to get up close and personal in order to beat an enemy.

His abilities could start off as single target, but gain the ability to make them AoE in exchange for lower CoS with the purchase of a support ability. Call it Megaphone or Loudmouth, maybe?

Also, the cone effect was the result of this observation: When you talk, more than one person can hear you.

It's not just hearing something, it's being directly spoken too. If you saw a child being yelled at by an angry parent, you'd both hear it, but obviously the child is going to feel worse because he is being spoken to directly.

It's also easier to speak to one person than an entire crowd, so that is where the idea for single abilities to be more effective than their AoE versions came from (although the class can always have both with that support ability.)

Pende's Mediator/Ninja comes to mind and he's far from the only one.

It doesn't combine into anything particular broken, and my guy was probably pretty weak compared to others of his level. Mediator tossed out statii, ninja tossed out raw (mediocre) damage. An oracle and a black mage, or an Oracle/Black Mage would have been able to do his job better.

Somebody just needs to come up with 4 more unique powers and we've got us a class. I don't like the "set CT=0" skill because it's basically just Stop but less effective and implemented weird.

I'll recycle some ideas I had in HoI....

Scapegoat
You know why everything sucks? Its because of that guy and his kind, get him!
System: Inflicts lure on a target, or group of targets (such as a class or monster species) enemies will be drawn to attack this target. Higher chance of working on yourself or an ally then an enemy

Psychotherapy
Using knowledge of the human and monsterous mind, the rhetorician uses his abilities to either negate or counter the ailments inflicted to the target.
System: High chance of curing berserk, silence, brave loss, faith loss, death sentence, sleep, confusion, and charm.

Death Pardon
Appealing to the forces of fate, the rhetorician passes a bill to allow the target a second chance at life.
System: High chance for a KO'd target to revive after 300 CT has passed.


Bailout:
My life or my money? Don't make me choose....
System: Depending on the situation, you may pay to be released without repercussions from a skirmish. You don't get eaten, you don't get injury, etc. You lose X money depending on number of foes and their strength. Skirmish runner determines whether or not the ability applies


Snappy Comeback reaction
That was a great attack...for me to poop on!
Trigger: HP damage or being the target of an enemy talk skill.
JP:
System: Chance to counterattack with a random talk skill.

Motor Mouth support ability
Being skilled in the art of debate, you can discuss subjects and proposals much faster then normal. Those around you might have a little more understanding you, though.
Has to use two talk skills at the same time in battle. The same skill may be used twice. Both talk skills suffer a CoS penalty.
JP: XXX
System: Says it RIGHT THERE.

Monster Kin: support ability
You can grunt and squeak and squawk with the monsters~
So well in fact, that you built up a repertoire with some breeds of monsters.
JP: XXX
System: Pick a monster breed. You get 15% DR from any kind of attack from that monster, and a CoS bonus to affecting them with talk skills. Can be bought up to 5 times, picking a different monster. Lucavi, Ultima demons, and LMH monsters do not apply. Takes up a slot, but the slot can be shared with multiple monster kin skills.

Soapbox (move ability)
Pull out a mini podium and address the unwashed masses in style.
JP:XXX
system: If the Rhetorician doesn't move during his turn, he gets a CoS bonus to talk skills starting from his next turn. The bonus will remain as long as he stays in place.

Also, random thought, shouldn't Mediators use books rather than guns? Reading from a book seems appropriate for a class that's based on speechifying.

They could use knives, books, and guns like in HoI. Maybe books could give a boost to talk skill CoS to compensate for lacking guns range?

When you have to start juggling max bonuses and expiration timers to prevent abuse, you may want to stop and take note of the fact that whatever it is you're trying to implement isn't very balanced.

Eh, it's no worse than making sure sleep/confuse/etc has an expiration date, and not being able to stack haste or regen multiple times.

Insofar as Buffing Move / Jump, that's actually kinda cool. I'm not sure how I'd justify it on Mediator, necessarily, but I'm all about exploring that niche for... Something.

Easy, the mediator just does his best Sergent Dornan impression.

WHEN I SAY JUMP YOU JUMP
WHEN I SAY FIGHT YOU FIGHT
WHEN I SAY DIE FOR YOUR COUNTRY THEN YOU WILL MOST CERTAINLY DIE
AM I CLEAR SOLDIER?!

Probably works more or less the same way the mediator could make people faster just by talking them them, aka encouraging them.

Speaking of which, maybe an intimidation talk skill that inflicts chicken and makes the enemy simply flee for a few rounds could be useful.

[Mordred]

Megaphone or whatever would work best as an inherent class feature rather than a Support.

Scapegoat: Maybe
Psychotherapy: Esuna Jr.
Death Pardon: Raise Jr.
Bailout: No economic powers.
Snappy Comeback: Cool!
Motor Mouth: Doublecast is a bad idea for everyone.
Monster Kin: Buy-multiple-times skills aren't in our paradigm; it would have to apply to all monster types but that might be broken.
Soapbox: Sure why not?

Adding +1 Move would be a way better solution than letting Mediators manipulate Speed values, since Time Mages already have the preeminent claim to all spacetime-themed abilities and effects.

A skill that inflicts Chicken makes way more sense on Mediator than Oracle. I think we cut Foxbird from Oracle already, right?

[kablizzy]

Aye, Foxbird's not in the list there, I don't think.

[Schwerpunkt]

M'kay. Another update. Cutting the argumentum ad _____ stuff because Mord apparently hates it. And I admit it's kind of pretentious.

1. Adds Berserk (single target)
2. Adds Sleep (multiple targets)
3. Adds Confuse (single target)
4. Adds Provoke (taunt, single target)
5. Adds Pacification (temporarily prevents use of abilities that don't consume MP, single target)
6. Adds Stoic (temporarily immune to Talk skills, single target)
7. Adds Coward (think Foxbird but with a less silly name, single target)
8. Psychotherapy - Removes status effects the Mediator can apply
9. Adds Lucky (single target (if 100% to crit), multiple targets if not)

For RSM:
R1: Pistol Whip (melee attack for 70% damage, requires gun)
R2: Gut Punch (inflicts Nausea, reducing target move by 1)
S1: Equip Gun
S2: Monster Talk (able to Invite monsters on a temporary basis, all talking abilities apply to them normally)
M1: Move +1

Psychotherapy got a drastic overhaul. But I'm not sure it's viable with these changes. Stoic replaces the direct damage ability.

[Mordred]

Sleep
Confuse
Berserk
Charm
Death Sentence
Chicken/Coward

These 6 are reserved for Mediator. We can also throw on Quick since Time Mage doesn't have it anymore, and also a mass-effect CT=0 move. Add Pacify to effectively "Silence" fighters, and we have our ability set.

Although, come to think of it, do we really need Pacify and Chicken? We could throw in Lucky instead.

[Schwerpunkt]

I'd really rather not make Quick readily accessible. The potential for it to be abused is pretty high (four Mediators just throwing Quick at the team's resident Lancer, who proceeds to roflpwn everyone). Similarly, setting CT to 0 in an aoe is problematic.

I also like Lucky, which lets us increase damage output without having to modify PA/MA levels. Plus it's kind of thematic -- you convince someone they're lucky, therefore they become lucky.

So your list plus Lucky and Pacify brings us to 8. We need that 9th skill.

[Mordred]

Ok, so we've got
Berserk
Confuse
Pacify
Chicken
Charm
Sleep
Death Sentence
Lucky

Maybe something like... hm. You know, that DD skill might not be the worst idea. Everyone else gets a token damage skill, even Oracle.

[Schwerpunkt]

Wait. I didn't see Death Sentence in your original list.

Why does the Oracle get it, exactly? I don't think any class should ever really get it because it's so easy to implement poorly and make the system easy to game.

[Mordred]

Well, it seems pretty thematic for a speech-based class to be able to literally sentence someone to death and have it happen like a prophecy.

What are your specific objections to it? I do kind of like the "race against time" element, since it has no negative effects before it causes death.

[Schwerpunkt]

It has the same problems every Death Sentence has. If it can't be cured easily, it sets a hard timer. If the Mediator then runs away, tough shit: he's not terribly slow, so you can't catch him unless you're a fast class (so, three or so classes can realistically chase him down). If you can't cure it, it's hugely problematic because people just have to make it land and then weather the next few turns. If you can cure it, it becomes unimpressive (except in duels) because it does basically nothing. If its timer is too short, it's broken. If it's too long (and curable), it's useless.

It's thematic, but the Knight breaking your shit and the Thief stealing your shit is also thematic. Being thematic doesn't justify including an ability that's basically impossible to balance.

[Mordred]

One-on-one, you're right, Death Sentence is a game over for all but the most insane damage dealers. However, this is a team sport. Death Sentence just means your Priest has to be on the lookout for people dropping dead - AKA business as usual.

That said, maybe Death Sentence should deal a buttload of damage, delivered three turns hence, rather than instagib three turns hence.

[pendejochy]

6. Adds Stoic (temporarily immune to Talk skills, single target)

I think it should be expanded to statii that the mediator can cast. I think I went though all of HoIv2 without fighting another mediator, much less anyone with talk skills. While maybe they'll be massively popular and all over the place in this sim....I doubt it.

What do you think of Soapbox or Snappy Comeback as abilities, Spunky? I think they're viable.

[Mordred]

Proactive status immunity is kind of problematic, since it can make Oracles, Mediators, and a whole lot of other classes obsolete. Reflect is a series staple that we can't outright get rid of, but one of Mediator's advantages is that Talk can't be Reflected. For that reason, I don't like Stoic.

Soapbox doesn't thrill me.

Snappy Comeback, on the other hand, is a perfect Reaction ability.

Also, this is Spunky:

[pendejochy]

What about a movement ability that increases gun accuracy/talk skill CoS when you're on higher height than your target?

I dunno if this is too gamebreaking, but what about an ability that disables support/reaction/movement skills for standard status duration?

Or an ability that prevents "violent" actions. So the target can still heal, buff, etc, but can't actively attack for a few turns? Of an inverse, where they can only use abilities that cause damage, but not non-violent abilities?

[Mordred]

Sounds fine for a move skill, except the gun accuracy part, since guns are already 100%.

Disabling enemy RSM is possible. I dunno, Schwer?

"Pacify" already prevents all physical actions, if I'm not mistaken. Though that makes me wonder why you wouldn't just use Paralyze (Don't Act)... Pacify will have to hit AoE to make up for it I think. Ditto for Oracle's Silence Song.