Lancer Development Thread

[Schwerpunkt]

I actually like that. You Jump into the enemy's lines, you bust out a Whirlwind Strike, maybe drop a Crimson Wings, and then you jump back before they finish caving your skull in. Much, much better than the FFT version.

I knew we kept you for more than just your rugged good looks, Mord.

But I'd up the cost to 15 CT/tile. The question then becomes: what do we do about the actual direct damage component of it? Do you just jump on someone and land on an adjacent tile?

Also, I'd be in favor of it having a cooldown. Maybe 2 turns before you can use it again, just to keep them from jumping in, roflpwning, jumping out, healing, and jumping back in ad nauseam.

[Mordred]

The actual mechanics of how Jump would work as an attack depend on whether CT is even something we can leave in the game. I don't like how Jumping makes Lancers invulnerable to damage in FFT (more things that are wtfbroken about FFT Jump), though I know it's a series standard.

I envision Lancers as being guys who wear heavy armor because they are stat-wise way more focused on attack than defense, thereby being somewhat more fragile than tanky Knights or tanktanktanky Monks. Jump invulnerability works directly counter to that.

Anyway, how Jump works depends on if Ilium can deliver on a program that can handle delayed-time actions. If he can, we've got some room to wiggle. If he can't, Jump needs to be an instantaneous thing that makes Lancers play like chess knights.

I was thinking you pick the tile to land on, then pick one of the 4 adjacent tiles to stick your spear in. This lets you use Jump as a way to get around even if no one's there to break your fall.

If the tile you picked to land in is occupied before you get there (assuming delayed action) you land on the guy who moved there and attack him instead of your intended target, then end up in the closest empty tile to your intended destination.

[Ilium]

No worries, counting loops are easy to code.

[Mordred]

Ok, in that case, I still like Jump as being instantaneous, because Lancers hanging around in the air, temporarily immortal, is a little bit weird. Especially if they're supposed to be fast-attack goons, for whom the ability to duck quickly in and out of combat is vital.

[Schwerpunkt]

I think I'd prefer it be instantaneous, too, if only because having them be off-map and immune to damage (even poison!) is kind of stupid.

Although, given that, Jump damage would need to be reduced rather significantly from what it was in FFT.

[Ilium]

I like Jump being instantaneous as well, however I am wary about loading all of the CT-heavy abilities entirely into the MOJ tree, if only to balance that aspect of combat out a little bit.

[kablizzy]

I'd be a fan of not being able to jump back out of combat if there's no target to jump to. I like the concept of having to stick next to the guy you just jumped on and eat an attack. If we make it no CT, then I'd agree that damage needs to be scaled down quite a bit. I'd also rather assign a random adjacent open tile to land on instead of allowing the Lancer to pick and giving the caveat of "If this tile is occupied, then you hit that guy, and if that guy also has an occupied tile..." and so on.

[Mordred]

Not being able to Jump back out without a target is a pretty cool idea. I like the concept of Jumping on one of your own allies to escape in a pinch. XD

Assigning random adjacent open tiles to land on when using Jump as an attack is also fine and dandy dee, as long as you can specify your destination when simply using Jump to get around.

[kablizzy]

May 2, 2013 18:51:49 GMT -6 Mordred said:

Not being able to Jump back out without a target is a pretty cool idea. I like the concept of Jumping on one of your own allies to escape in a pinch. XD

Ahahaha, exquisite.

[Schwerpunkt]

I can live with the "you must have a target" thing. Especially since Jump, without requiring a target, effectively doubles the Lancer's move range.

[Mordred]

Whoa, wait, you still want to have it Range 8? I was thinking it would have Range equal to the character's Move or Move+1 or +2 or +3. 8 is a little intense.

[kablizzy]

I don't care about range there as much, we can shove it down to just Move.

Okay, edited first post, and I've noticed a few things -

1) We've got 12 primary abilities, so we're probably looking to cut a couple.

2) We've got a lot of redundancy. Crimson wings is sorta ranged, likely 3 or 4 squares out. Lancet is ranged. Jump is ranged. Javelin is ranged. Whirlwind Strike and Sweeping Strikes are almost identical, so we can combine these.

3) We've got a shitton of AoE. Crimson wings has the potential to be AoE, although really limited. Fire breath would be shotgun-style AoE. Whirlwind Strike is AoE. Dragon's Roar and Sweeping Strikes are both AoE. Reis' Wind is kinda AoE, except in the other direction.

4) So, combining Whirlwind Strike / Ring of Talons / Sweeping Strikes, we're at 11 abilities. Of these, we've got 4 damaging AoE abilities and one healing AoE. And what's worse, is I dislike Falling Strike, which I now don't want to cut, since it's one of very few non-ranged, non-AoE abilities.

So, thoughts?

[Schwerpunkt]

No other POJ has any real aoe capability (Samurai did, but he's HOJ now). If anything, I think building the Lancer around the potential to have decent aoe is a good thing. But, yeah, he's kinda weighted firmly in one direction.

So here's my redraft.

Tier 0
Lancet -> As before, just not all that great.

Tier I
1 - True Strike -> Same as before. Adds Provoke.
2 - Falling Strike -> Same as before.
3 - Crimson Wings -> Deals damage in direct line, with damage increasing for every target affected.

Tier II
4 - Jump -> Deals 125% damage, moves Lancer near target. 2 turn cooldown.
5 - Reis' Wind -> Regen isn't too OP. I like it.
6 - Sweeping Strikes -> As before. Now requires at least two adjacent targets.

Tier III
7 - Dragon's Roar -> aoe provoke, adds temp brave.
8 - Disembowel -> 60% accuracy, 100% chance to crit, 50% knockback.
9 - Terrifying Strike -> The bigger your balls, the more pain you bring. Chance to apply Terror.


I cut Fire Breath because it's the only skill he has that is flagrantly not the result of his martial prowess.

The other big change is that I dropped Lancet as a buyable skill. Rather, it'd just be a "oh, you took this class, therefore you get this extremely basic skill" sort of like Grapple for the Ninja.

The idea behind Disembowel is basically to give the Lancer an ability that can really front-load damage on a single target, which isn't really something he has.

[Mordred]

If I may, can I suggest that Lancet and/or Reis' Wind be cut? Lancers are attacky, not tanky, so having a self-heal ability is kinda... eh.

I do like Fire Breath, but that's just personal opinion. :3

[Schwerpunkt]

Well, Reis' Wind and Fire Breath are both magicish. I'd be happy cutting either. But I'd like to keep Reis in that skillset somewhere.

Hell, we could rename Fire Breath to Reis' Wroth or something and I'd be kosher with it.