Schwerpunkt
Power Gamer
Who would ever want to be king?
Posts: 422
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Post by Schwerpunkt on May 9, 2013 21:38:45 GMT -6
They got Jump +5. Because being able to jump up an entire tower and stab Zalmo in the face is goofy.
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Mordred
Role Player
Don't believe the Church and State.
Posts: 195
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Post by Mordred on May 9, 2013 21:43:58 GMT -6
Grugh! We could figure out some kind of restriction on Fly, but that just defeats the purpose.
Back to the drawing board I guess.
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Schwerpunkt
Power Gamer
Who would ever want to be king?
Posts: 422
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Post by Schwerpunkt on May 9, 2013 21:58:50 GMT -6
I argued for cutting Manafont from the Oracle. We can use it here. It jives with the really high MP cost (compounded by the fact that the Summoner doesn't get the same MP growth as the Wizard).
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Post by kablizzy on May 10, 2013 0:04:08 GMT -6
Good call! I like that a lot, actually. Any suggestions on naming for it, based upon Summons?
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Schwerpunkt
Power Gamer
Who would ever want to be king?
Posts: 422
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Post by Schwerpunkt on May 10, 2013 0:21:04 GMT -6
Dunno. Bismarck's Patience?
Also, if we do add Manafont here, the 'regen mana' ability has to go.
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Post by kablizzy on May 10, 2013 0:45:14 GMT -6
I'm okay with both of those.
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Mordred
Role Player
Don't believe the Church and State.
Posts: 195
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Post by Mordred on May 10, 2013 5:05:52 GMT -6
Shouldn't Summoners have the highest MP growth, since their spells have the highest MP requirement? 0_o
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Post by kablizzy on May 10, 2013 9:53:35 GMT -6
I haven't even touched growth rates yet, but that makes sense.
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Schwerpunkt
Power Gamer
Who would ever want to be king?
Posts: 422
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Post by Schwerpunkt on May 10, 2013 11:48:02 GMT -6
Shouldn't Summoners have the highest MP growth, since their spells have the highest MP requirement? 0_o Uh, no. Wizards are the principal damage dealers and they, not Summoners, should have the highest MP growth (and, therefore, the best MA growth and shittiest PA/HP growth). If Summoners can restore mana by walking around, have the highest mana pool, and do the most damage, why even have Wizards? I'm increasingly ambivalent on being able to restore MP by moving. It really feels like giving the Summoner what is functionally unlimited MP. |
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Post by kablizzy on May 10, 2013 13:37:37 GMT -6
It depends on how much we let them restore, don't you think?
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Mordred
Role Player
Don't believe the Church and State.
Posts: 195
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Post by Mordred on May 10, 2013 13:52:55 GMT -6
Shouldn't Summoners have the highest MP growth, since their spells have the highest MP requirement? 0_o Uh, no. Wizards are the principal damage dealers and they, not Summoners, should have the highest MP growth (and, therefore, the best MA growth and shittiest PA/HP growth). If Summoners can restore mana by walking around, have the highest mana pool, and do the most damage, why even have Wizards? I'm increasingly ambivalent on being able to restore MP by moving. It really feels like giving the Summoner what is functionally unlimited MP. Wizards and Summoners could have identical MP and MA growth but still be competitive with each other because their party roles are entirely different. Even if both classes had unlimited MP, you'd still have a scenario where Summoners are limited by the lower speed of their spells, meaning that they have higher potential damage output but a lower chance of achieving that output because enemies will often be able to get out of the blast zone in time. There is, however, no escape from an insta-cast Fire or even a channeled Fire, since it can track targets rather than tiles. Why have a sniper rifle when you have a mortar? |
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Schwerpunkt
Power Gamer
Who would ever want to be king?
Posts: 422
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Post by Schwerpunkt on May 10, 2013 14:01:34 GMT -6
Mortars are a vastly superior force multiplier than snipers are, Mord. Bad analogy. The problem I have is that Wizards will have to manage MP, but unless Manafont here is really dreadful, Summoners run the risk of essentially never running out of MP (or, at high level, being able to easily chain together low-level summons until the heat death of the universe). It depends on how much we let them restore, don't you think? Sure. But how do we balance that? Level*2 doesn't work. 5% MP is way too high. Do we go with 2%, which is basically nothing to anyone below level 20? Do we have a regressive scale? RNG? |
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Post by kablizzy on May 10, 2013 22:58:14 GMT -6
I was thinking 1 or 2 MP per tile. And yes, that's dreadful, but anything above that is silly. Also, yes, it only nets you, what 4 - 8 MP a turn? But that over 5 turns of doing nothing but moving places gets you another summon. Not the most useful thing, and we can probably come up with something better. But it's not a terrible concept. I always saw it as more of a small rounder than a legitimate benefit.
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Schwerpunkt
Power Gamer
Who would ever want to be king?
Posts: 422
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Post by Schwerpunkt on May 10, 2013 23:14:24 GMT -6
We could probably push it up to 1% MP per move (not per tile), but that's about as high as I'd be comfortable going.
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Post by kablizzy on May 11, 2013 8:39:06 GMT -6
I was even thinking that's too high, but I wouldn't mind trying it for the beta.
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