New Weapon Types

[Schwerpunkt]

I feel that there's room to make some of our classes more unique by giving them special weapon types.

1. Shotgun [Alt: Blunderbuss]
This is basically the exact opposite of the gun in FFT. It's a ton of damage front-loaded in a cone. Basically, the gun does 150% to the front tile, 100% to the second and third tiles, and then 35% to the fourth, fifth, and sixth tiles. The Shotgun is intended for the Demagogue (Ordallian uber-Mediator) and Corsair (uber-Thief).

2. Rifle [Alt: Musket]
This just outright replaces the basic gun class. ~8 hex range, high accuracy, decent but uninspiring damage. If basic weapon damage is WP*PA, this thing should be (WP*PA)*.8. Accuracy bonus should be high enough to reliably hit higher P-Ev classes.

3. Claymore
This is a two-handed weapon intended for the Knight and Berserker. Basically, every attack has a minor cleave. It hits the desired target for 100% damage and the two adjacent targets for 25%. The cleave hits allies if they happen to be standing there. The trade-off is that the Knight (a tanky class) loses his shield (which has lots of P-Ev). The Claymore has a fairly high M-Ev rating for a weapon.

4. Spear
Functionally, this is exactly the same thing it was in FFT. The only difference is that Spears are now exclusively one-handers. Combined with shields, Lancers should able to serve as makeshift tanks.

5. Halberd
This class replaces all the two-hander spears. They should have higher WP ratings, but lower P-Ev ratings than Spears. It's more intended to be the DPS weapon for Lancers. I would also like to see this weapon be able to attack 'through' an ally without actually hitting him.

6. Runic Blade
Runic Blades are just swords purpose-built for Spellswords (they, therefore, are regular Swords with MA). These are given a separate class only to prevent caster classes from grabbing Equip Sword and using them. And also so they don't have to compete for the same items as their more physical counterparts.



To represent shotguns/claymores (because they're kind of iffy), here's a crude map.



The darker tiles represent higher percentages of damage.

[sunspawn]

Seems to me Spears and Halberds can be just made into a single type with two weapons per level/tier/whatever. Same with Guns/Shotguns/Rifles, with specific guns being class-specific and mentioned so in descriptions.

Two handed swords having splash damage as a trade-in for less EV seems weak, since enemies aren't going to be bunching up for you conveniently. But it might be just me.

[Schwerpunkt]

y helo thar

Separating Spears and Halberds into distinct item classes has the benefit of making it easier to develop and balance them. Also, it makes it easier to categorize them.

For shotguns and rifles, they're distinctly different mechanical processes. They kind of have to be separate for Ilium to code them effectively.

Claymores are intended for Knight dps (he'll probably get a flat damage bonus, plus the weapons will have higher WP anyway) and the Berserker prestige class. They're very niche weapons. And it's quite possible that you're right in that enemies won't be that convenient, but maybe they will be. Basically, claymores get free damage if your enemies cluster together (although that damage could totally splash onto allies, making it a dangerous thing to just spam).

[sunspawn]

Oright, I forgot that Ilium intends to automatize stuff. Point.

[Mordred]

Can we take Ninja Swords out of the game? Ninjas are already broken enough with Two Swords. Either we should get rid of Two Swords or Ninja Swords and force them to use Knives or Equip Sword to use regular swords.

[Schwerpunkt]

My thinking was that, level for level, each individual Ninja attack would hit for less -- with the caveat being that they hit twice. So instead of Ninja dealing 200% damage (like they do in FFT), they'd only be dealing around 150% damage. This is obviously still high, but that's part of the trade-off -- they wouldn't get much P-Ev or M-Ev from their weapons, wouldn't get to equip secondaries, and so forth. Basically, they'd be glass cannons.

Also, my intention was to make sure they didn't have stupidly high P-Ev. Ninjas would be something of high-risk, high-reward class. You hit really hard, but you also go down like a cheerleader on prom night.

[Diethe]

Hey Schwer, I just thought of scimitars among Ordallians and throwing axes among Romandans. I know its a bit of a long haul but hey any idea is a good idea right? Heh. Of course discussion and shooting down the idea is open.

[Schwerpunkt]

While I have no problems with people RPing their weapons as having whatever shape they want (because, mechanically, a sword is a sword regardless of whether or not it's curved), I'm not sure I really want to add scimitars as a distinct weapon class. What would the purpose be, exactly? They're identical to swords, except they're curved and therefore better at slashing and stabbing -- which has no real impact in-game? Do we give them entirely different attributes (like lower P-Ev for higher M-Ev) and then try to balance them that way? If so, who can use the scimitar? Is it restricted to religion? Does it impact the ____ Knight prestige classes?

Scimitars are a lot of work for, as far as I can see, no real reward. I'm fully in favor of making all Ordallian swords scimitars from a stylistic and RP perspective, but I don't think we gain anything by adding them to the game.

As for throwing axes, I was planning on them being involved in an ability or two for the Berserker (who otherwise would have no ranged abilities). I don't think it rates as a separate weapon for any class, really. Throwing weapons were a staple of Germanic warfare for a very long time (the warriors that ambushed Varus at Kalkriese used light throwing spears, not entirely dissimilar to the Roman pilum), and throwing axes were as well, but I'm not sure they're a big enough deal to integrate into a class.

[Diethe]

I was thinking about scimitars being an axe/sword hybrid but I guess I see the point aye, heh.

[kablizzy]

Ah, finally found this. Dunno how I missed it. I guess my overriding question for these is this: Why do we have different weapons in the game? And my answer to this was always mechanics-driven. A Samurai could pick up a broadsword and swing it about, but he doesn't. He uses Katana. And only because he does the Draw Out thing. Other swords don't work the same way as Katana do. They don't have spirits. Why can Chemists get guns? Hell if I know. Why can't Knights use fucking Knight Swords? Why are there Ninja Swords? Why the fuck are there bags? Why do they do random damage?

I was going to comment on each of these types, but instead, I'm going to suggest that we overhaul the entirety of how weapons work, down to 1H / 2H, who uses what, equip abilities and all. Because what it looks like to me is that we've already got a bunch of unnecessary weapon classes that can be boiled down and made work with a lot fewer types, and then we're looking to add 7 or 8 types to that list, so I want to be sure that we've got a grasp on who's going to use what and why.

[sunspawn]

I'll throw a list of weapons I think makes sense:(1/2 does not mean half-handed ;P)

Swords
Daggers
Greatswords
Katanas (I say make them 2H)
1/2H Spears
Axes(Who will use them though? Besides Geomancer and that bahsahkah prestige class I keep hearing about)
Caster weapons(I say we lug all the rods and staves into one pile)
Runeblades(the exception to the above, for that Swordma- ~coughcough~ Spellsword class I hear about)
Bows(includes X-Bows and Greatbows and wookie bows and whatnot)
Guns
Shotguns

I forget anything?

[Schwerpunkt]

There's also flails, bags, harps, and rods. Flails and bags are probably going to be cut, harps will probably show up for the Performer (if we merge Bard/Dancer) or just the Bard. Rods are Oracle territory.

[sunspawn]

I really don't know why bother split rods and staves, considering that they pretty much the same. Unless you plan to give either/both special effects, merging them seems like a more sensible option.

Flails and bags being cut I anticipated, thus didn't add. And rather than Harps, I would like to see the Musical Instruments from the GBA game, as that makes a tad more sense (not all performers/bards use harps - some use lutes, flutes, drums, whatnot...)

[Schwerpunkt]

I didn't really play much of the GBA games (FFTA was so unbelievably bad I didn't even try FFTA2), so I can't really speak to that effect. But, on the whole, a broader "instrument" class does make more sense. But we can look at that when we get to the classes.

The rod, by the way, is important to the Oracle's unique identity since it establishes him as the only basic caster class that's capable of dealing meaningful physical damage without getting bent over a bar stool. I actually think its use should be expanded (namely to include the Wizard too, leaving staves for the Priest and Summoner) as a loot balance feature. After all, having four different classes compete for one type of weapon is problematic; it's also why I'm in favor of more flavorful weapon types of most classes.

[sunspawn]

So staff for the frailer squishies and rod for the buffer ones? I can live with that.